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gti6



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PostSubject: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 17:57

After some racing approx 16.30GMT I was banned.

Now every race has close shaves and I'm not denying paintwork was shared with [MRc] Picur, but after he then crashed me (on purpose?) on the way into a corner (I was hugging the outside kerb allowing ample room)

Anyway, a few races later and we all leave T1 relatively unscathed. Then for some reason unknown to me,
[MRc] Picur failed to back up his selfish actions. I was kicked. I still have no idea what happened but I hadn't hit anyone and was progressing with the leading pack.

So after rejoining and asking why I was kicked, I was banned. I wasn't told anything,
[MRc] Picur failed to live up to the good name of this server. I said "bullshit", but in my opinion it was a justified comment to express my thoughts on [MRc] Picur's ad ministerial abilities.

I'm sorry if this is very to the point, but I've never seen such a bad performance
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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 19:41

Hello,

On which server it happened? Do you have saved replays?

Thanks

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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 19:48

Formula BMW. Unfortunately I didn't save any replays, which I should have done. I was just prepared to let everything slide at first, should have done for the last race when I was eventually banned. But after kicked then ban, I totally forgot
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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 20:15

I did not crash anybody, I were BESIDES you, and you did not give any space for me in the corners when I was overtaking you (so endly you pushed me down the track). And not I were the only one, who you did it to, all the people were complaining about you, and your crasing and unfair, unetical racing. I actually saw that you pushed 2 people down the track in 1st lap 1st sector of the race. The third was me, and as I remember (maybe not well), that was the moment, whn I banned you.


Sam, or SKSWAT, or whoever it reads, Please watch the replays, I don't want any more, and you will find out, why I kicked the guy twice, and why I gave ban finally. All the people on thre server were complaining about him that he was unfair and his behavior was against the rules of server and the rules of etical racing, and he did unfair things to me too.

So, I say it again, I only want you to watch the replays.

Best regards,
Picur.

PS: I dont want to argue with you about this, GTI-6, neither here, nor anywhere.
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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 20:28

Mate, on that last race I hung back and hung back. I barely touched anyone and it certainly wasn't down to me. No places change, so insignificant was the contact.

On a different occasion, I was pushed about by you up until the final turn to head up the hill and onto the start/finish. Then, as mentioned, I hugged the kerb so that you didn't kick me again for "blocking", you then parked your car sideways into me, using me as a brake, if you will.

Even if I was kicked for MINIMAL contact, it wouldn't excuse your dreadful conduct.
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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 20:40

For me Picur made a good job. We were all having problems with gti-6.
After every race, there had to be a user which was angry on gti-6. He wasn't driving fair, especially during neck and neck battle...
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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 20:41

As I said, I wont argue with you.

I told ketamine (a very-very good racer, not the fastest, but one of the fairest I know), Bartek [PL] (as you see), and Birdman to come here and tell what they think about you to Sam or SWAT. If they come here, they will certify the truth.

PS: As I remember, Cla saw the incident too, so along with his 97-98% rt, you, Sam and Swat, can believe him, and I gonna tell him to come here.
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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 20:49

I have been present today during this events and I raced with Picur and GTi. I would like to come in the support of Picur, because:

1. Picur and GTi were fighting in front of me, and for some reason both spun just before the finish of sector 2, and GTi was just sitting on the racing line chatting and saying that it was Picur's fault and so on. I wasn't able to avoid him, I crashed in him and my race was over. One rule of the server says that you must spectate after you crash - he didn't do that.

2. At the start, GTi probably thinks he is alone on the track and can take whatever racing line he wants. For that reason he pushed me onto the grass in T1 and again, my race was pretty much over. After this incident, several players complaind about GTi and he got kicked one or twice, I don't remember exactly.

3. On another ocasion, after he already got kicked, he sat on the side of the road chatting. The next race, he was 1 lap behind, came out of the pitlane, didn't stop and he nearly crashed me - i avoided him and spun on the track.

If it was only me and Picur the ones that had to do with him, maybe you can say we are exageratin, but I'll tell you onestly that at one moment the chat was flooded with complaints about GTi.

Regards, ketamine.
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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 20:58

ketamine wrote:
I have been present today during this events and I raced with Picur and GTi. I would like to come in the support of Picur, because:

1. Picur and GTi were fighting in front of me, and for some reason both spun just before the finish of sector 2, and GTi was just sitting on the racing line chatting and saying that it was Picur's fault and so on. I wasn't able to avoid him, I crashed in him and my race was over. One rule of the server says that you must spectate after you crash - he didn't do that.

2. At the start, GTi probably thinks he is alone on the track and can take whatever racing line he wants. For that reason he pushed me onto the grass in T1 and again, my race was pretty much over. After this incident, several players complaind about GTi and he got kicked one or twice, I don't remember exactly.

3. On another ocasion, after he already got kicked, he sat on the side of the road chatting. The next race, he was 1 lap behind, came out of the pitlane, didn't stop and he nearly crashed me - i avoided him and spun on the track.

If it was only me and Picur the ones that had to do with him, maybe you can say we are exageratin, but I'll tell you onestly that at one moment the chat was flooded with complaints about GTi.

Regards, ketamine.

Thank you, ketamine.
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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 21:13

I have to agree with Picur on this one. Gti-6 was complaining the entire time amd wasn't driving fair.

I was actually spectating when the crash occurred at the end of sector 2, and I remember thinking that it was not Picur's fault that you guys crashed and was surprised how you started complaining there after, not driving fairly and messing up other people's races.
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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 21:25

Thank you, Birdman.

Actually, he caused a lot of accidents, and always blamed the other, and never said a sorry, or never said that it was his fault, despite it was really his fault.
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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 21:41

Hello all,

I see there is massive discuss about it.

But anyway, I watched all replays (spend almost 2 hours watching replays and reading server log) and I can say that Picur's behaviour was not good at all.

Crashes were not on purpose. I also seen many many kicks of other drivers immediately just because someone say "oh, that hurt" without any verification. Just kick in few seconds.

Is I told I watched all replays from GTI6 connection until his ban and I can say he was not type of driver who causing problems, crashing or driving agressive.

My opinion is that some crashed with GTI6 was caused by Picur, not by GTI6. Picur had enough space to brake or avoid crash. GTI was on edge of track in 1st accident. 2nd accident happened when Picur wanted pass GTI6. He came from behind and "pushed" into GTI6's line.

When I watched a lot of replays I noticed that Picur also restarted race with "nice" reason: someone spinned HIM accidentaly. Is it reason for restart?
I think its little abusing of limad rights. 3 out of 14 cars have contact on start. I think normal situation which not require restart. (till admin is not involved, right? Twisted Evil)

I can understand that in FBM race even small crash can cause spin and ruin your race. But its game, which have bugs and lags. In real F1 are also collisions, and nobody is restarting race, or DNF driver for every touch.

=================================================================
ketamine wrote:
One rule of the server says that you must spectate after you crash - he didn't do that.
See !rules
I really dont see this rule you said on our servers. Maybe its your personal rule. Not official.
"As real as it gets". Its motto of most simulators. I dont think specdating is very close to reality.
=================================================================

On the final I must say I fully agree with GTI6. 2 kicks was not necessary and ban of course not too.
Everything you can see very clear and close on replays.

I temporary lowered Picur's limad rights to Limad0 until this complaint will not completly resolved and discussed with other Supads too.


Here are the replays from all races where I noticed some important moments which have something to do with this topic.

REPLAYS

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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 21:57

skswat wrote:

=================================================================
ketamine wrote:
One rule of the server says that you must spectate after you crash - he didn't do that.
See !rules
I really dont see this rule you said on our servers. Maybe its your personal rule. Not official.
"As real as it gets". Its motto of most simulators. I dont think specdating is very close to reality.
=================================================================

I don't agree with that. There is a temporary message that appears and sais to spectate if you crash, and I think that is a common sence for that thing to happen, because some of the players are sitting sideways in the middle of the track after crashing just for fucking up others races because they had an incident.
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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 22:01

ok, standing on track and swearing on other drivers is not right, but continue in race... or go out of track is OK.
Of course they can specdate also. If it is just appear in temporary messages on server does not mean it is rule. Its only advise how to avoid crash.

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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 22:02

skswat wrote:
Hello all,

I see there is massive discuss about it.

But anyway, I watched all replays (spend almost 2 hours watching replays and reading server log) and I can say that Picur's behaviour was not good at all.

Crashes were not on purpose. I also seen many many kicks of other drivers immediately just because someone say "oh, that hurt" without any verification. Just kick in few seconds.

Is I told I watched all replays from GTI6 connection until his ban and I can say he was not type of driver who causing problems, crashing or driving agressive.

My opinion is that some crashed with GTI6 was caused by Picur, not by GTI6. Picur had enough space to brake or avoid crash. GTI was on edge of track in 1st accident. 2nd accident happened when Picur wanted pass GTI6. He came from behind and "pushed" into GTI6's line.

When I watched a lot of replays I noticed that Picur also restarted race with "nice" reason: someone spinned HIM accidentaly. Is it reason for restart?
I think its little abusing of limad rights. 3 out of 14 cars have contact on start. I think normal situation which not require restart. (till admin is not involved, right? Twisted Evil)

I can understand that in FBM race even small crash can cause spin and ruin your race. But its game, which have bugs and lags. In real F1 are also collisions, and nobody is restarting race, or DNF driver for every touch.

=================================================================
ketamine wrote:
One rule of the server says that you must spectate after you crash - he didn't do that.
See !rules
I really dont see this rule you said on our servers. Maybe its your personal rule. Not official.
"As real as it gets". Its motto of most simulators. I dont think specdating is very close to reality.
=================================================================

On the final I must say I fully agree with GTI6. 2 kicks was not necessary and ban of course not too.
Everything you can see very clear and close on replays.

I temporary lowered Picur's limad rights to Limad0 until this complaint will not completly resolved and discussed with other Supads too.


Here are the replays from all races where I noticed some important moments which have something to do with this topic.

REPLAYS
The restart was because a lot of cars spinned there, and I dont think that is normal when 3 cars go away and everybody else spin.

The rule-thing:
Thats not a server rule that you have to spectate, when you crash, but all the normal racers do that. This is called etical racing, and when you stay on track when you could go away, that is called illegal blocking (FIA rule, and I think you must not block on our servers too, just like you cant go left-right-left in front of others).

The other thing is also an FIA-rule: you MUST give space at a corner, if another races is BESIDES you. If I were behind, I would have braked, but if I'm next to the other racer, I think that he/she must follow the FIA rules of racing. Or on the other hand, if he dont give space, he pushes me to grass, which is not permitted by the FIA-rules.

As you heard here, it was not only me, who didnt tolerate what GTI-6 did. Please take this into consideration too.

At one of the starts, at the tiny left "corner" in the finish line, GTI pushed a player onto the grass. I did nothing as I raced. After the 1st right hairpin, I saw that he pushed another guy down to the grass.

If the FIA general rules of racing are not valid on the MRc servers, tell me, and then I will do my limad-works as you told.

Endly, I did not even mention the swearing that GTI did a few times. (And I would also ask what can I do, when I see a player swearing even if I warned? Can I kick?)
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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 22:11

I would also swear... and worse than GTI if someone would do the same to me like you do to GTI. I think he was very calm.

I dont really see reason for his 2nd kick. You can see on replay. T1 without any touch.... it sounds like sci-fi to me. He was breaking, turning... driving properly... just small scratch. And you kicked. I think I would use much worse words like GTI used.

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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 22:14

PiCuR wrote:
The restart was because a lot of cars spinned there, and I dont think that is normal when 3 cars go away and everybody else spin.

The rule-thing:
Thats not a server rule that you have to spectate, when you crash, but all the normal racers do that. This is called etical racing, and when you stay on track when you could go away, that is called illegal blocking (FIA rule, and I think you must not block on our servers too, just like you cant go left-right-left in front of others).

The other thing is also an FIA-rule: you MUST give space at a corner, if another races is BESIDES you. If I were behind, I would have braked, but if I'm next to the other racer, I think that he/she must follow the FIA rules of racing. Or on the other hand, if he dont give space, he pushes me to grass, which is not permitted by the FIA-rules.

As you heard here, it was not only me, who didnt tolerate what GTI-6 did. Please take this into consideration too.

At one of the starts, at the tiny left "corner" in the finish line, GTI pushed a player onto the grass. I did nothing as I raced. After the 1st right hairpin, I saw that he pushed another guy down to the grass.

If the FIA general rules of racing are not valid on the MRc servers, tell me, and then I will do my limad-works as you told.

Endly, I did not even mention the swearing that GTI did a few times. (And I would also ask what can I do, when I see a player swearing even if I warned? Can I kick?)

From what I saw from the replays, GTI6 is a good clean racer.

The time where you said he should have spectated he had no time to. And he still had a good car to continue anyway.

While he didn't give quite enough room before the crash in sector two,
you did the same thing to him in a different race in sector three.

I'm on GTI6's side on this one but I can see how you would kick/ban him when everybody was against him.

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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 22:23

skswat wrote:
... just small scratch. And you kicked.
Swearing is against the rules what you, and the other bosses made. The NO CONTACT rule is a rule what you (bosses) made too. Maybe I could have been more patient, but if you feel like you are pushed down, and all the people on the server say that "ban this idiot crasher!", then you would have been upset too. Maybe I could be more patient.

Please give me the replays of our races, if you can. Thank you.

The other things of FIA rules: are they all valid for our races, or not? Especially the 13. General safety.
FIA rules

The other thing: GTI blames me for crashing on purpose ( 1st comment). That's ridiculous, as long as we see that I have a safety rating of 96%... it only shows that I know the rules, and I follow them all times. Unlike him, when I told him to leave a safe room for me, he asked me why would he leave when it's a race....

1., If a car stops during practice or a race (except under
Article 17 I c) and d) ), it must be removed from the track as
quickly as possible...
here it can be done by pressing shift+S.


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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 22:41

If I would kick everyone for every contact made on server. Then servers sould be empty. Because NOBODY can avoid contact all the time, and mainly not then 14 cars want pass through one turn in same moment.

Btw, replays are in my 1st post in the bottom. There is link.

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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 23:10

I watched some of the replays.

In the 9R, I think it was a mixture of my fault and a racing accident. GTI went slower than I expected, and maybe I went a little faster, I hit GTI, and thats why ketamine ran into him. So I agree that it was my fault.

In the BAN replay: you can see that GTI pushed Birdman down to the grass at start, and I can clearly see Birdman in GTI's left mirror, so Birdman was not in a blind area. And in the turn 1, he gave me no space, I had to go on the grass.

In 11R 7F: GTI wanted to go on his racing line totally ignoring that he had to give me space, and then asking why did I crash him...

In 12R 9F: At about 3:10, GTI makes a really dangerous situation by standing in a corner, almost crashing me, and the guy behind me.

OK, maybe the ban was a bit strong punishment from my side, but please take that into consideration that I was upset by all these situations and all the people on the server told me to ban him, so they were strongly complaining about him.
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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 23:35

PiCuR wrote:
In the BAN replay: you can see that GTI pushed Birdman down to the grass at start, and I can clearly see Birdman in GTI's left mirror, so Birdman was not in a blind area. And in the turn 1, he gave me no space, I had to go on the grass.

Its hard to judge what to do when you find yourself between two cars, he did a decent job staying clear of both cars.

It looked like you closed in on him faster than he expected. He went into the corner with someone above and below him, he was just trying to find somewhere to go.

PiCuR wrote:
In 11R 7F: GTI wanted to go on his racing line totally ignoring that he had to give me space, and then asking why did I crash him...

He really couldn't give you much more room. You tried to get too close to him at the start of the corner.

PiCuR wrote:
In 12R 9F: At about 3:10, GTI makes a really dangerous situation by standing in a corner, almost crashing me, and the guy behind me.

He probably should have spectated there, but he was trying to be careful, inching out very slowly to try and continue racing.

PiCuR wrote:
OK, maybe the ban was a bit strong punishment from my side, but please take that into consideration that I was upset by all these situations and all the people on the server told me to ban him, so they were strongly complaining about him.

Your right, it would be hard to ignore the complaining of everyone else in the server. I might have done the same if I had been in your situation.

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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 23:45

I must say, I find this extremely refreshing! A good community. I've never had problems on this server before, whilst I will admit I'm not what one would call regular.

skswat, you seem to see where I'm coming from. I thank you for your honest and frank response.

I appreciate what people are saying and as I've said, I cannot say that paint was not swapped, but it was nothing malicious or in anyway, what I would consider, aggressive driving.

That said, I did swear and made somewhat of an apology earlier.
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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Wed 19 Oct - 23:48

PiCuR wrote:
OK, maybe the ban was a bit strong punishment from my
side, but please take that into consideration that I was upset by all
these situations and all the people on the server told me to ban him, so
they were strongly complaining about him.

This says what I was trying to get across to you. You abused your power and didn't act fairly. As I said at the start, I could let the kicks slide, but your attitude was infuriating and not one which I would have expected from such a well respected server.
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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Thu 20 Oct - 0:33

The spectate thing is like an unwritten rule and very common in LFS. Wink

This is like a never ending discussion where everyone stays hard at his opinion so:

*Takes GTI's hand, takes Picurs hand* Shake them, say sorry, go on racing, have fun. cheers

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PostSubject: Re: Banned by [MRc] Picur   Thu 20 Oct - 8:13

Mirio wrote:
The spectate thing is like an unwritten rule and very common in LFS. Wink

This is like a never ending discussion where everyone stays hard at his opinion so:

*Takes GTI's hand, takes Picurs hand* Shake them, say sorry, go on racing, have fun. cheers

Sure, if someone has been crashed hardly, or give up race, he should specdate, but Im a rallycross driver and there is quite a lot of small collisions, and if I would specdate after every accident I would almost never finish race Very Happy ... just full throttle and continue race.... maybe I will not win race, but finish 3rd, 5th... etc. who care. Doesn't matter.

PiCuR wrote:
I watched some of the replays.

In the 9R, I think it was a mixture of my fault and a racing accident. GTI went slower than I expected, and maybe I went a little faster, I hit GTI, and thats why ketamine ran into him. So I agree that it was my fault.

Good for you that you watched situations again and can admit your fault too. Nobody is perfect, mistakes happen. Just as L4 (which is very high level and you should be something like professional in this) your decisions should be verified and not making quick decisions.
I seen that more drivers was complaining on GTI, but my personal opinion is, that it was caused by the crowd psychosis. If someone complaining, then he is automaticaly bad, and I will complain too Very Happy

==========================================================================
Same in FBM, if someone just spin and his car is in 100% condition, why he should specdate? Just turn back to right direction and go go. Race continue.

I think some reactions was unnecessarily exagerated and could be solved by easier way.


Maybe if you picur save replay and watch, would see that GTI is not kind of unstoppable crasher and his driving is trying to be fair as much as possible. Also you should verify some situations when other drivers complaining to other. Many drivers are complaining for stupid things and without compelling reasons.
Cannot believe everything, if you didn't see that accident on your own eyes. Many drivers are saying that in a fit of anger and real impact is not so critical.

It's racing, everyone want to be 1st and nobody will give his position easily. Smile It's clearly seen on replays, that you are faster driver than GTI, but it doesnt mean you can pass him everywhere and he must go away to let you pass. He is not lapped driver and do not have blue flag. You as a behind driver need find best location and pass him safely. Sometimes takes longer and driver infront of you slowing you down. I know what I'm talking about, It happens many times on RallyX to me also.
Im faster than most other drivers, but doesnt mean I can pass them everytime I wish. Very Happy

As Mirio told, you should state peace each other and close this complaint.

Don't waste my valuable free time Very Happy Laughing


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